What are you doing to promote Confederate History??? I am engaged in a never ending exchange of insults with a Prof. Brooks Simpson. Seems like I have got him to the point where his best option is to call me a supporter of “white supremacist terrorism.” LOL
Anyway you can read the exchange at http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/an-uncertain-message-calling-the-scv-to-account/
I have no problem insulting idiots such as this.
GP
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Well Simpson is trying to defend the Sherman quote he was nice enough to post for me the entire letter or order. According to Simpson, Sherman never issued such an order. He is right and I was wrong he did send this letter to all departments as noted. Now a fellow by the name of Al Mackey wants to take up Simpson’s chant and tell me that I do not understand the written English language and that I have a complete misunderstanding of events and Sherman’s intentions. That is fine but there are a couple of words I have managed to pick up on during my life, one of them being all and “The South.”
To Simpson and Mackey regarding the above, I say just make sure you understand what you have posted, get your ducks in a row, soon I intend to prove you wrong. ****************************************************************** OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 39, Part 2 (Allatoona) HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI, In the Field, Big Shanty, Ga., June 21, 1864. Hon. E. M. STANTON, SIR: I inclose you herewith copy of a letter this day addressed to General Burbridge, who commands the District of Kentucky, an I have furnished a copy to all department commanders subject to my orders. I doubt whether the President will sustain me, but if he don’t interfere is all I ask. I can get the malcontents on board ships at sea without traveling outside of my authority, but then the jurisdiction becomes doubtful. We will never have peace as long as we tolerate in our midst the class of men that we all know to be conspiring against the peace of the State, and yet who if tried by jury could not be convicted. Our civil powers at the South are ridiculously impotent, and it is as a ship sailing through sea – our armies traverse the land, and the waves, of disaffection, sedition, and crime close in behind, and our track disappears. We must make a beginning, and I am willing to try it, but to be effectual it should be universal. The great difficulty will be in selecting a place for the malcontents. Honduras, British or French Guiana, or San Domingo would be the best countries, but these might object to receive such a mass of restless democrats. Madagascar or Lower California would do. But one thing is certain, there is a class of people, men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order, even as far south as Tennessee. I would like to have your assent and to name the land to which I may send a few cargoes, but if you will not venture, but leave me to order, I will find some island where they will be safe as against the district of my command. It has now been raining nineteen days constantly, and taking the Flood as the only example in history, the rain squall is nearly half over. Fortunately we are at the apex of Georgia, which may prove the Ararat of our ark of safety against the flood. I am, with respect, your obedient servant, W. T. SHERMAN, Major-General, Commanding. [ Edited Mon Apr 11 2011, 06:50PM ] |
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As posted above, Simpson tells us that Sherman never issued such an order to remove, or banish citizens from their home and that Sherman wasn’t talking about all people of the South only a “class”. Simpson goes on to tell me that this quote is something found only on pro- Confederate websites. Simpson’s co conspirator Al Mackey tells me this only applied to Kentucky. Me thinks they should get their stories straight. I asked Simpson to define what class of people Sherman was speaking of or who may be excluded. I never received an answer. Remember is threefold who took it upon himself to define what constitutes a soldier in the War for Southern Independence.
To Simpson’s charge that Sherman never issued such a order, I say hogwash!!! He may not have issued the order from that letter per say but he did issue an order very similar that amounted to the same thing. His “class of people letter or order was already issued by June 21, 1864, note the dates below, less than a month after and not in Kentucky!!!! From the OR— (The Atlanta Campaign) HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI, General GARRARD, Roswell, Ga.: GENERAL: Your reports is received and is most acceptable. I had no idea that the factories at Roswell remained in operation, but supposed the machinery had all been removed. Their utter destruction is right and meets my entire approval, and to make the matter complete you will arrest the owners and employee and send them, under guard, charged with treason, to Marietta, and I will see as to any man in America hoisting the French flag and then devoting his labor and capital in supplying armies in open hostility to our Government and claiming the benefit of his neutral flag. Should you, under the impulse of anger, natural at contemplating such perfidy, hang the wretch, I approve the act before hand. I have sent General Schofield to reconnoiter over on that flank, and I want a lodgment made on the other bank as soon as possible anywhere from Roswell down to the vicinity of Soap Creek. I have no doubt the opposite bank is picketed, but, as you say, the main cavalry force of Wheeler has moved to the other flank, and we should take advantage of it. If you can make a lodgment on the south bank anywhere and secure it well, do so. General Schofield will be near to follow it up and enlarge the foothold. He had just started from Ruff’s Station a few minutes before I received your dispatch, but I telegraphed the substance to be sent to overtake him. Keep a line of couriers back to Marietta and telegraph me very fully and often. I now have the wires to my bivouac. By selecting some one ford, say the second or third below the mouth of Willeyo Creek, on your sketch, and holding a force there concealed, say a brigade, with your battery, then have the heads of each your other two brigades close by above and below at the nearest fords, let detachments from these latter brigades cross at night at the nearest fords, and, without firing a gun, close in front of the brigade in position ready to cross with artillery. When across with artillery the best position on a commanding hill should be fortified. I will see that the cavalry is relieved by General Schofield at once. I merely suggest this plan and it execution about daylight to-morrow, and I prefer you should do it. I assure you, spite of any little disappointment I may have expressed, I feel for you personally not only respect but affection, and wish for your unmeasured success and reputation, but I do wish to inspire all cavalry with my conviction that caution and prudence should be but a very small element in their characters. I repeat my orders that you arrest all people, male and female, connected with those factories, no matter what the clamor, and let them foot it, under guard, to Marietta, whence I will send them by cars to the North. Destroy and make the same disposition of all mills save small flouring mills manifestly for local use, but all saw-mills and factories dispose of effectually, and useful laborers, excused by reason of their skill as manufacturers from conscription, are as much prisoners as if armed. The poor women will make a howl. Let them take along their children and clothing, providing they have the means of hauling or you can spare them. We will retain them until they can reach a country where they can live in peace and security. In your next letter give me as much information as you can as to the size and dimensions of the burned bridge at Roswell across the Chattahoochee. We have plenty of pontoon bridging, but I much prefer fords for so large an army as we have. I am, with respect, yours, truly, W. T. SHERMAN, Major-General, Commanding. ******************************************************************** OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) page 91-92 HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI, Major General H. W. HALLECK, Washington, D. C.: GENERAL: I telegraph to you, and Mr. Secretary Stanton answers. Drop me a word now and then of advice and encouragement. I think I have done well to maintain such an army in such a country, fighting for sixty days, and yet my losses are made up by the natural increase. The assault I made was no mistake; I had to do it. The enemy and our own army and officers had settled down into the conviction that the assault of lines formed no part of my game, and the moment the enemy was found behind anything like a parapet, why everybody would deploy, throw up counter-works and take it easy, leaving it to the “old man” to turn the position. Had the assault been made with one fourth more vigor, mathematically, I would have put the head of George Thomas whole army right through Johnston’s deployed lines on the best ground for go-ahead, while my entire forces were well in hand on roads converging to my object, Marietta. Had Harker and McCook not been struck down so early the assault would have succeeded, and then the battle would have all been in our favor on account of our superiority of numbers, position, and initiative. Even as it was, Johnston has been much more cautious since, and gives ground more freely. His next fighting line, Smyrna Camp-Ground, he only held one day. I have got General Schofield across the Chattahoochee with two good pontoon bridges, without loss, and momentarily wait the news of my cavalry being across at Roswell Factory, where is the best ford on the whole river, but before going ahead I will there a good pier or trestle bridge and will at some point intermediate, convenient to roads, put down two more pontoon bridges, making five bridges and three fords, before I put the army across the Chattahoochee. I call your attention to the inclosed paper* in reference to the Roswell factories. They were very valuable, and were burned by my orders. They have been engaged almost exclusively in manufacturing cloth for the Confederate Army, and you will observe they were transferred to the English and French flags for safety, but such nonsense cannot deceive me. They were tained with treason, and such fictitious transfer was an aggravation. I will send all the owners, agents, and employee up to Indiana to get rid of them here. I take it a neutral is no better than one of own citizens, and we would not respect the property of one of our own citizens engaged in supplying a hostile army. *Not found as an inclosure. ****************************************************************** OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) page 92-93 HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI, General WEBSTER, Nashville: I have ordered the arrest of the operators at the Confederate manufactories at Roswell and Sweet Water, to be sent North. When they reach Nashville have them sent across the Ohio River and turned loose to earn a living where they won’t do us any harm. If any of the principals seem to you dangerous, you may order them imprisoned for a time. The men were exempt from conscription by reason of their skill, but the women were simply laborers that must be removed from this district. W. T. SHERMAN, Major-General, Commanding. http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-1086 GP [ Edited Wed Apr 13 2011, 10:20AM ] |
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gpthelastrebel |
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Following along the same line of a Sherman – Burbridge attack on citizens of Kentucky, I will be posting more information to this thread on that regard. I have a couple of sources I have to look over including the ORs. I think the information will be interesting,at least it will show abuses committed on the citizens of Kentucky by the Yankees.
GP |
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Registered Member #1
Joined: Tue Jul 17 2007, 09:46AM |
These notes are about Gen Stephen G. Burbridge. Regardless of what sort of spin Simpson wants to put on Burbridge he was not well like in Kentucky by either Union of Confederate sympathizers just a few instances to prove my point with Simpson. There are just to many abuses committed by this man to post. Now according to Simpson, Sherman did not issue this order, then all I have to say is through he letter Sherman was very suggestive and made the practice of war on civilians a practice in general.
Date of Sherman’s letter June 21, 1864. Source: Collins’ historical sketches of Kentucky: History of Kentucky, Volume 1 By Lewis Collins, Richard H. Collins (1864) page 137 July 26—Gen. Burbridge issues order No. 61, commanding any persons banished from Missouri or other states to leave Ky. within 20 days, and not return during the war. Aug. 10—Gen. Paine banishes from Paducah to Canada, sending them under guard of negro soldiers as far as Cairo, the following: Mrs. Robert Wool folk and family, 8 persons (Mr. Woolfolk having been banished by the same officer two weeks previously); Mrs. Hobbs; Mrs. Melrouse and sister; Robert Shanklin; and from Columbus, Mrs. Dowell, Mr. Malone, Geo. B. Moore, Pembroke AValker, Burns Walker, James Morton, R. £. Cooke, N. Cooke, Judge Vance, McKean Hubbard, and Jas. Moore (late postmaster.) Most of thorn are leading merchants and property owners; when arrested, their goods are Beised and guards placed over them. Many others, to avoid arrest under Paine’s reign of terror, abandon their property and escape to Illinois. (1868) page 185 (1865) page 151-152 Jan. 6—Gov. Bramlette, in his annual message to the legislature, recapitulates his efforts (by a personal visit to Washington to confer with the president and secretary of war) to allay excitement and prevent unlawful acts growing out of negro-recruiting; they agreeing to stop recruiting or drafting in each county as soon as its quota is filled, to confine recruiting to the regularly appointed officers The message further says : “An attempt was also made, under cover of these military trade regulations, through the Commissary department, to perpetrate a most extensive swindle upon though farmers of Ky. in the purchase of their hog crop. Under the trade orders none could ship or drive to market without a permit; and all wore prohibited from shipping across the Ohio river—thus closing the Cincinnati and other markets to our farmers. The buyers and packers at Louisville and elsewhere were warned off, under threats of arrest and confiscation, etc. Agents, who were assigned to this wholesale swindle, went actively to work, notifying the farmers that the government had determined to take their hogs, and had fixed the price which they must take—a price greatly below the market value. To have a stop put to this swindle—which was being carried on through the Commissary department, under the patronage of the commandant of the district of Ky. [Gen. Bur* bridge]—I sent a communication to the president, borne by reliable messengers, to explain the details of the matter of my letter. The hog swindle was promptly ended; but not until the farmer had attained losses to at least $300,000—yet in time to save them the loss of over $1,000,000. It is due to the honest farmers of the state that you collate, or provide for so doing, the facts bearing upon this attempted and partially executed fraud, and present them also in connection with the military trade regulations.” “The gravest matter of military outrage has been, and yet is, the arrest, imprisonment, and banishment of loyal citizens without a hearing, and without even a knowledge of the charges against them. There have been a number of this class of arrests, merely for partisan political vengeance, and to force them to pay heavy sums to purchase their liberation. How the spoils, so infamously extorted, are divided, has not transpired to the public information. I recommend that the limitation to actions for malicious arrest and false imprisonment be repealed, or so modified as not to begin to run until one year after the rebellion shall be suppressed.” He further recommends that the offense of causing or procuring such arrests and imprisonments be made punishable as a felony or high misdemeanor. The telegrams, letters, Ac, growing out of the arrests of Gen. John B. Huston, Lieut. Got. Richard T. Jacob, Col. Frank Wolford, etc, and also the report concerning the infamous conduct of Gen. Eleazer A. Paine, accompany the message [ Edited Fri Apr 15 2011, 09:26AM ] |
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gpthelastrebel |
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Registered Member #1
Joined: Tue Jul 17 2007, 09:46AM |
Another phrase that Simpson loved to throw out was “white supremacist terrorism.” This was not directed so much to the white race as it was toward the South. At any rate he loved the phrase so much it gave me a research idea. I thought I would take the time to look up the race/hate riots in the US. This include sexual orientation or religious preference. I found some surprising facts.
May not be the best but—- Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots 1829 – Cincinnati riots of 1829, Cincinnati, Ohio, United States 1991 – Crown Heights Riot, August 1991, (Brooklyn, New York, United States) 2001 – 2001 Cincinnati Riots, April 2001, (Cincinnati, Ohio, United States) 1943 – Zoot Suit Riots, (Los Angeles, California, United States) Keep in mind this listing may or may not be complete, but I did not leave any listing out deliberately. This list also does not include any riots that were a result of winning or losing a sporting event or in the clebration of Mardi Gras. I did not count the number of ex-Confederate vs. the Northern states, you can see for yourself there is just no comparison. I think history shows where the most hate lies. GP |
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