An Exchange With Brooks Simpson

What are you doing to promote Confederate History??? I am engaged in a never ending exchange of insults with a Prof. Brooks Simpson. Seems like I have got him to the point where his best option is to call me a supporter of “white supremacist terrorism.” LOL

Anyway you can read the exchange at http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/an-uncertain-message-calling-the-scv-to-account/

I have no problem insulting idiots such as this.

GP

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Well Simpson is trying to defend the Sherman quote he was nice enough to post for me the entire letter or order. According to Simpson, Sherman never issued such an order. He is right and I was wrong he did send this letter to all departments as noted. Now a fellow by the name of Al Mackey wants to take up Simpson’s chant and tell me that I do not understand the written English language and that I have a complete misunderstanding of events and Sherman’s intentions. That is fine but there are a couple of words I have managed to pick up on during my life, one of them being all and “The South.”

To Simpson and Mackey regarding the above, I say just make sure you understand what you have posted, get your ducks in a row, soon I intend to prove you wrong.

******************************************************************

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 39, Part 2 (Allatoona)
Page 132 KY., SW. VA., TENN., MISS., ALA., AND N. GA. Chapter LI. pages 131-132

HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI, In the Field, Big Shanty, Ga., June 21, 1864.

Hon. E. M. STANTON,
Secretary of War, Washington, D. C.:

SIR: I inclose you herewith copy of a letter this day addressed to General Burbridge, who commands the District of Kentucky, an I have furnished a copy to all department commanders subject to my orders. I doubt whether the President will sustain me, but if he don’t interfere is all I ask. I can get the malcontents on board ships at sea without traveling outside of my authority, but then the jurisdiction becomes doubtful. We will never have peace as long as we tolerate in our midst the class of men that we all know to be conspiring against the peace of the State, and yet who if tried by jury could not be convicted. Our civil powers at the South are ridiculously impotent, and it is as a ship sailing through sea – our armies traverse the land, and the waves, of disaffection, sedition, and crime close in behind, and our track disappears. We must make a beginning, and I am willing to try it, but to be effectual it should be universal. The great difficulty will be in selecting a place for the malcontents. Honduras, British or French Guiana, or San Domingo would be the best countries, but these might object to receive such a mass of restless democrats. Madagascar or Lower California would do. But one thing is certain, there is a class of people, men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order, even as far south as Tennessee. I would like to have your assent and to name the land to which I may send a few cargoes, but if you will not venture, but leave me to order, I will find some island where they will be safe as against the district of my command. It has now been raining nineteen days constantly, and taking the Flood as the only example in history, the rain squall is nearly half over. Fortunately we are at the apex of Georgia, which may prove the Ararat of our ark of safety against the flood.

I am, with respect, your obedient servant,

W. T. SHERMAN,

Major-General, Commanding.

[ Edited Mon Apr 11 2011, 06:50PM ]

 Wed Apr 13 2011, 10:07AM Report Edit Quote

 

As posted above, Simpson tells us that Sherman never issued such an order to remove, or banish citizens from their home and that Sherman wasn’t talking about all people of the South only a “class”. Simpson goes on to tell me that this quote is something found only on pro- Confederate websites. Simpson’s co conspirator Al Mackey tells me this only applied to Kentucky. Me thinks they should get their stories straight. I asked Simpson to define what class of people Sherman was speaking of or who may be excluded. I never received an answer. Remember is threefold who took it upon himself to define what constitutes a soldier in the War for Southern Independence.

To Simpson’s charge that Sherman never issued such a order, I say hogwash!!! He may not have issued the order from that letter per say but he did issue an order very similar that amounted to the same thing. His “class of people letter or order was already issued by June 21, 1864, note the dates below, less than a month after and not in Kentucky!!!!

From the OR— (The Atlanta Campaign)
OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) page 76-77

HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI,
In the Field, near Chattahoochee, July 7, 1864.

General GARRARD,

Roswell, Ga.:

GENERAL: Your reports is received and is most acceptable. I had no idea that the factories at Roswell remained in operation, but supposed the machinery had all been removed. Their utter destruction is right and meets my entire approval, and to make the matter complete you will arrest the owners and employee and send them, under guard, charged with treason, to Marietta, and I will see as to any man in America hoisting the French flag and then devoting his labor and capital in supplying armies in open hostility to our Government and claiming the benefit of his neutral flag. Should you, under the impulse of anger, natural at contemplating such perfidy, hang the wretch, I approve the act before hand. I have sent General Schofield to reconnoiter over on that flank, and I want a lodgment made on the other bank as soon as possible anywhere from Roswell down to the vicinity of Soap Creek. I have no doubt the opposite bank is picketed, but, as you say, the main cavalry force of Wheeler has moved to the other flank, and we should take advantage of it. If you can make a lodgment on the south bank anywhere and secure it well, do so. General Schofield will be near to follow it up and enlarge the foothold. He had just started from Ruff’s Station a few minutes before I received your dispatch, but I telegraphed the substance to be sent to overtake him. Keep a line of couriers back to Marietta and telegraph me very fully and often. I now have the wires to my bivouac. By selecting some one ford, say the second or third below the mouth of Willeyo Creek, on your sketch, and holding a force there concealed, say a brigade, with your battery, then have the heads of each your other two brigades close by above and below at the nearest fords, let detachments from these latter brigades cross at night at the nearest fords, and, without firing a gun, close in front of the brigade in position ready to cross with artillery. When across with artillery the best position on a commanding hill should be fortified. I will see that the cavalry is relieved by General Schofield at once. I merely suggest this plan and it execution about daylight to-morrow, and I prefer you should do it.

I assure you, spite of any little disappointment I may have expressed, I feel for you personally not only respect but affection, and wish for your unmeasured success and reputation, but I do wish to inspire all cavalry with my conviction that caution and prudence should be but a very small element in their characters.

I repeat my orders that you arrest all people, male and female, connected with those factories, no matter what the clamor, and let them foot it, under guard, to Marietta, whence I will send them by cars to the North. Destroy and make the same disposition of all mills save small flouring mills manifestly for local use, but all saw-mills and factories dispose of effectually, and useful laborers, excused by reason of their skill as manufacturers from conscription, are as much prisoners as if armed. The poor women will make a howl. Let them take along their children and clothing, providing they have the means of hauling or you can spare them. We will retain them until they can reach a country where they can live in peace and security.

In your next letter give me as much information as you can as to the size and dimensions of the burned bridge at Roswell across the Chattahoochee. We have plenty of pontoon bridging, but I much prefer fords for so large an army as we have.

I am, with respect, yours, truly,

W. T. SHERMAN,

Major-General, Commanding.

********************************************************************

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) page 91-92

HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI,
Near Chattahoochee, July 9, 1864.

Major General H. W. HALLECK, Washington, D. C.:

GENERAL: I telegraph to you, and Mr. Secretary Stanton answers. Drop me a word now and then of advice and encouragement. I think I have done well to maintain such an army in such a country, fighting for sixty days, and yet my losses are made up by the natural increase. The assault I made was no mistake; I had to do it. The enemy and our own army and officers had settled down into the conviction that the assault of lines formed no part of my game, and the moment the enemy was found behind anything like a parapet, why everybody would deploy, throw up counter-works and take it easy, leaving it to the “old man” to turn the position. Had the assault been made with one fourth more vigor, mathematically, I would have put the head of George Thomas whole army right through Johnston’s deployed lines on the best ground for go-ahead, while my entire forces were well in hand on roads converging to my object, Marietta. Had Harker and McCook not been struck down so early the assault would have succeeded, and then the battle would have all been in our favor on account of our superiority of numbers, position, and initiative. Even as it was, Johnston has been much more cautious since, and gives ground more freely. His next fighting line, Smyrna Camp-Ground, he only held one day.

I have got General Schofield across the Chattahoochee with two good pontoon bridges, without loss, and momentarily wait the news of my cavalry being across at Roswell Factory, where is the best ford on the whole river, but before going ahead I will there a good pier or trestle bridge and will at some point intermediate, convenient to roads, put down two more pontoon bridges, making five bridges and three fords, before I put the army across the Chattahoochee. I call your attention to the inclosed paper* in reference to the Roswell factories. They were very valuable, and were burned by my orders. They have been engaged almost exclusively in manufacturing cloth for the Confederate Army, and you will observe they were transferred to the English and French flags for safety, but such nonsense cannot deceive me. They were tained with treason, and such fictitious transfer was an aggravation. I will send all the owners, agents, and employee up to Indiana to get rid of them here. I take it a neutral is no better than one of own citizens, and we would not respect the property of one of our own citizens engaged in supplying a hostile army.
Write me a note occasionally and suggest anything that may occur to you, as I am really in the wilderness down here, but I will fight any and all the time on anything like fair terms, and that is the best strategy, but it would not be fair to run up against such parapets as I find here.
Your friend,
W. T. SHERMAN,
Major-General, Commanding.
NEAR CHATTAHOOCHEE, July 9, 1864.

*Not found as an inclosure.

******************************************************************

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) page 92-93

HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI,
In the Field, near Chattahoochee River, July 9, 1864.

General WEBSTER, Nashville:

I have ordered the arrest of the operators at the Confederate manufactories at Roswell and Sweet Water, to be sent North. When they reach Nashville have them sent across the Ohio River and turned loose to earn a living where they won’t do us any harm. If any of the principals seem to you dangerous, you may order them imprisoned for a time. The men were exempt from conscription by reason of their skill, but the women were simply laborers that must be removed from this district.

W. T. SHERMAN,

Major-General, Commanding.
***************************************************
More reading on this story may be found at:

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-1086

GP

[ Edited Wed Apr 13 2011, 10:20AM ]

gpthelastrebel
 Wed Apr 13 2011, 07:56PM Report Edit Quote

 

Following along the same line of a Sherman – Burbridge attack on citizens of Kentucky, I will be posting more information to this thread on that regard. I have a couple of sources I have to look over including the ORs. I think the information will be interesting,at least it will show abuses committed on the citizens of Kentucky by the Yankees.

GP

 Fri Apr 15 2011, 09:23AM Report Edit Quote
Registered Member #1

Joined: Tue Jul 17 2007, 09:46AM
Posts: 3952

These notes are about Gen Stephen G. Burbridge. Regardless of what sort of spin Simpson wants to put on Burbridge he was not well like in Kentucky by either Union of Confederate sympathizers just a few instances to prove my point with Simpson. There are just to many abuses committed by this man to post. Now according to Simpson, Sherman did not issue this order, then all I have to say is through he letter Sherman was very suggestive and made the practice of war on civilians a practice in general.

Date of Sherman’s letter June 21, 1864.

Source: Collins’ historical sketches of Kentucky: History of Kentucky, Volume 1 By Lewis Collins, Richard H. Collins

(1864) page 137

July 26—Gen. Burbridge issues order No. 61, commanding any persons banished from Missouri or other states to leave Ky. within 20 days, and not return during the war.

Aug. 10—Gen. Paine banishes from Paducah to Canada, sending them under guard of negro soldiers as far as Cairo, the following: Mrs. Robert Wool folk and family, 8 persons (Mr. Woolfolk having been banished by the same officer two weeks previously); Mrs. Hobbs; Mrs. Melrouse and sister; Robert Shanklin; and from Columbus, Mrs. Dowell, Mr. Malone, Geo. B. Moore, Pembroke AValker, Burns Walker, James Morton, R. £. Cooke, N. Cooke, Judge Vance, McKean Hubbard, and Jas. Moore (late postmaster.) Most of thorn are leading merchants and property owners; when arrested, their goods are Beised and guards placed over them. Many others, to avoid arrest under Paine’s reign of terror, abandon their property and escape to Illinois.

(1868) page 185
Jan. 2—The editor of the Maysville Eagle, Thos. M. Green, in noticing Gen. Brisbin’s defense of Gen. Burbridge, relates several instances of innocent young men who were executed by order of the latter, without trial, without notice of trial, without notice to their friends of sentence until after execution ; an instance of a man guilty of being a guerrilla who was “sentenced to be shot, in connection with another man who was not within 100 miles of Henderson when the murder was committed for which the former was condemned; the mother and sister of the former interceded with Burbridge to change the death sentence to imprisonment, but he rejected their prayers; they were advised to employ “an ex-Federal colonel who, for a large sum of money which was paid, undertook to secure the release of the condemned guerrilla, and succeeded— while an innocent man was hung in his place, at Henderson.” He furnishes other instances and names, and alludes to still more; and renews a challenge, first given in 1865, to Gen. Burbridge ” to take such measures as would give him an opportunity to produce witnesses to prove these statements, cither before a military or civil court.” The article, while couched in respectful language, is strong, pointed, and crushing.

(1865) page 151-152

Jan. 6—Gov. Bramlette, in his annual message to the legislature, recapitulates his efforts (by a personal visit to Washington to confer with the president and secretary of war) to allay excitement and prevent unlawful acts growing out of negro-recruiting; they agreeing to stop recruiting or drafting in each county as soon as its quota is filled, to confine recruiting to the regularly appointed officers
for that service, and to remove the recruited negroes to camps of instruction outside of the state. Gen. Burbridge, who was selected to carry out these agreements, ” instead of doing so, adopted the most offensive and injurious modes of violating them.” “He also established a system of trade permits in violation of law and to the detriment of the public interests—which, as administered, was a most shameful and corrupt system of partisan political corruption and oppression.” The governor advises the legislature ” to collect the facts, showing its corrupt use, and present them to the national authorities, in such form as to secure though abolishment and future prohibition of all such interferences with the lawful and necessary trade of the country.”

The message further says : “An attempt was also made, under cover of these military trade regulations, through the Commissary department, to perpetrate a most extensive swindle upon though farmers of Ky. in the purchase of their hog crop. Under the trade orders none could ship or drive to market without a permit; and all wore prohibited from shipping across the Ohio river—thus closing the Cincinnati and other markets to our farmers. The buyers and packers at Louisville and elsewhere were warned off, under threats of arrest and confiscation, etc. Agents, who were assigned to this wholesale swindle, went actively to work, notifying the farmers that the government had determined to take their hogs, and had fixed the price which they must take—a price greatly below the market value. To have a stop put to this swindle—which was being carried on through the Commissary department, under the patronage of the commandant of the district of Ky. [Gen. Bur* bridge]—I sent a communication to the president, borne by reliable messengers, to explain the details of the matter of my letter. The hog swindle was promptly ended; but not until the farmer had attained losses to at least $300,000—yet in time to save them the loss of over $1,000,000. It is due to the honest farmers of the state that you collate, or provide for so doing, the facts bearing upon this attempted and partially executed fraud, and present them also in connection with the military trade regulations.”

“The gravest matter of military outrage has been, and yet is, the arrest, imprisonment, and banishment of loyal citizens without a hearing, and without even a knowledge of the charges against them. There have been a number of this class of arrests, merely for partisan political vengeance, and to force them to pay heavy sums to purchase their liberation. How the spoils, so infamously extorted, are divided, has not transpired to the public information. I recommend that the limitation to actions for malicious arrest and false imprisonment be repealed, or so modified as not to begin to run until one year after the rebellion shall be suppressed.” He further recommends that the offense of causing or procuring such arrests and imprisonments be made punishable as a felony or high misdemeanor. The telegrams, letters, Ac, growing out of the arrests of Gen. John B. Huston, Lieut. Got. Richard T. Jacob, Col. Frank Wolford, etc, and also the report concerning the infamous conduct of Gen. Eleazer A. Paine, accompany the message

[ Edited Fri Apr 15 2011, 09:26AM ]

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gpthelastrebel
 Tue Apr 19 2011, 09:41AM Report Edit Quote
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Joined: Tue Jul 17 2007, 09:46AM
Posts: 3952

Another phrase that Simpson loved to throw out was “white supremacist terrorism.” This was not directed so much to the white race as it was toward the South. At any rate he loved the phrase so much it gave me a research idea. I thought I would take the time to look up the race/hate riots in the US. This include sexual orientation or religious preference. I found some surprising facts.

May not be the best but—-

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

1829 – Cincinnati riots of 1829, Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
1834 – Anti-Abolitionist Riot, (New York City, New York, United States)
1836 – Cincinnati Riots of 1836, (Cincinnati, Ohio, United States)
1841 – Cincinnati Riot of 1841, Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
1844 – Philadelphia Nativist Riots, (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States)
1849 – Astor Place Riots, (New York City, New York, United States)
1853 – Cincinnati Riot of 1853 (Cincinnati, Ohio), United States
1855 – Bloody Monday (Louisville, Kentucky, United States)
1856 – Kansas Slavery Riots, (Lawrence, Kansas, United States)
1863 – New York Draft Riot, (New York City, New York, United States)
1866 – Memphis Race Riots, (Memphis, Tennessee), United States Suggest more reading on this. Brook goes on about the poor balck vets, but truth of the matter is they started the incident.
1866 – New Orleans Riot, (New Orléans, Louisiana, United States)
1868 – Pulaski Riot, (Pulaski, Tennessee, United States)
1870 – New York City Orange Riot, (New York City, New York, United States)
1871 – Second New York City Orange Riot, (New York City, New York, United States)
1871 – Meridian race riot of 1871, Meridian, Mississippi
1871 – Los Angeles Anti-Chinese Riot, (Los Angeles, California, United States)
1873 – Colfax Riot, (Colfax, Louisiana, United States)
1874 – Election Riot of 1874, (Barbour County, Alabama, United States)
1874 – Battle of Liberty Place, {New Orléans, Louisiana}, United States}
1874 – Vicksburg Race Riot, (Vicksburg, Mississippi, United States)
1884 – Cincinnati Vigilante Riot, (Cincinnati, Ohio, United States)
1885 – Rock Springs Massacre, (Rock Springs, Wyoming, United States)
1885 – Tacoma riot of 1885, (Tacoma, Washington, United States)
1885 – Issaquah riot of 1885, (Issaquah, Washington, United States)
1886 – Seattle riot of 1886, (Seattle, Washington, United States)
1891 – New Orléans Anti-Italian Riot, (New Orléans, Louisiana, United States)
1900 – Robert Charles Riots, (New Orléans, Louisiana, United States)
1906 – Atlanta Riots, (Atlanta, Georgia, United States)
1907 – Bellingham riots, (Bellingham, Washington, United States)
1908 – Springfield Race Riot, (Springfield, Illinois, United States)
1910 – Nationwide riots following the heavyweight championship fight between Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries in Reno, Nevada on July 4
1917 – East St. Louis Riot, (St. Louis, Missouri & East St. Louis, Illinois, United States)
1917 – Houston Riot (1917), Houston, Texas, United States
1919 – May Day Riots, (Cleveland, Ohio, United States)
1919 – Red Summer, (United States)
1919 – Chicago Race Riot, (Chicago, Illinois, United States)
1919 – Elaine Race Riot, (Elaine, Arkansas, United States)
1921 – Tulsa Race Riot, (Tulsa, Oklahoma, United States)
1923 – Rosewood massacre, (Rosewood, Florida)
1931 – Hawaii Riot, (Hawaii, United States)
1935 – Harlem Race Riot (New York City, New York, United States)
1943 – Zoot Suit Riots, (Los Angeles, California, United States)
1943 – Detroit Race Riot (1943), (Detroit, Michigan, United States)
1949 – Peekskill Riot (Peekskill, New York, United States)
1957 – Little Rock Integration Crisis (Autumn, 1957 Little Rock, Arkansas)
1962 – Ole Miss riot 1962, September 30, The University of Mississippi
1963 – Cambridge riot 1963, June 14, Cambridge, Maryland
1964 – New York City 1964 race riot, July 18–23 (New York City, United States)
1964 – Rochester 1964 race riot, July 24–25 (Rochester, New York, United States)
1964 – Jersey City 1964 race riot,[8] August 2–4 (Jersey City, New Jersey, United States)
1964 – Elizabeth 1964 race riot,[8] August 11–13 (Elizabeth, New Jersey, United States)
1964 – Dixmoor 1964 race riot[8] August 16–17 (Chicago, Illinois, United States)
1964 – Philadelphia 1964 race riot August 28–30
1965 – Watts Riot, August 1965, (Los Angeles, California, United States)
1966 – Division Street Riots, June 12–14 (Humboldt Park, Chicago, United States)
1966 – Hough Riots, July 1966 (Cleveland, Ohio, United States)
1966 – Hunters Point (San Francisco, California, United States)
1966 – Compton’s Cafeteria Riot, August 1966 (San Francisco, California, United States)
1966 – Benton Harbor Riot, August–September 1966 (Benton Harbor, Michigan, United States)
1966 – Atlanta riot of 1966, Sep. 6 (Atlanta, Georgia, United States)
1966 – Sunset Strip curfew riots (Los Angeles, California, United States)
1967 – Tampa Riots of 1967, June 1967 (Tampa, Florida, United States)
1967 – Buffalo riot of 1967, June 27 (Buffalo, New York, United States)
1967 – 1967 Newark riots, July 12–18, 1967 (Newark, New Jersey, United States)
1967 – 1967 Plainfield riots, July 14–20, 1967 (Plainfield, New Jersey, United States)
1967 – Cairo riot, July 17 (Cairo, Illinois, United States)
1968 – 1968 Washington, D.C. riots, April 1968 (Washington, D.C., United States)
1968 – Baltimore riot of 1968, April 6–12 (Baltimore, Maryland, United States)
1968 – Chicago riot of 1968 April 7–14 (Chicago, Illinois, United States)
1968 – Kansas City riot of 1968, April 1968 (Kansas City, Missouri, United States)
1968 – Louisville riots of 1968, May 27, (Louisville, Kentucky, United States)
1968 – Glenville Shootout, (Cleveland, Ohio, United States)
1969 – Stonewall Riots, June 1969, (New York City, New York, United States)
1971 – Attica Prison uprising, (Attica, New York, United States)
1975 – Livernois-Fenkell riot (Detroit, Michigan, United States)
1979 – White Night gay riots, May 1979 (San Francisco, California)
1979 – Greensboro Riot/Shootings, Nov. 1979, (Greensboro, North Carolina, United States)
1980 – Chattanooga Riot of 1980, (Chattanooga, Tennessee, United States)
1980 – Arthur McDuffie riots, May 1980, (Miami, Florida, United States)
1982 – Washington Anti-Klan protest 1982, Nov. 1982, (Washington, D.C., United States)
1982 – Miami Riot, Overtown Riot, Dec. 1982, (Miami, Florida, United States)
1989 – Overtown Riot 1989, Jan. 16-18, 1989,(Overtown, Florida, United States)
1991 – 1991 Washington, D.C. riot in D.C.’s Mount Pleasant neighborhood, May 1991, (Washington, D.C., United States)

1991 – Crown Heights Riot, August 1991, (Brooklyn, New York, United States)
1992 – Los Angeles riots/Rodney King riot, April–May (Los Angeles, California, United States)
1996 – St. Petersburg, Florida Riot 1996, Oct. 1996, (St. Petersburg, Florida, United States)

2001 – 2001 Cincinnati Riots, April 2001, (Cincinnati, Ohio, United States)
2010 – Riots in Santa Cruz, California.

1943 – Zoot Suit Riots, (Los Angeles, California, United States)
1943 – Detroit Race Riot (1943), (Detroit, Michigan, United States)
1957 – Little Rock Integration Crisis (Autumn, 1957 Little Rock, Arkansas)

Keep in mind this listing may or may not be complete, but I did not leave any listing out deliberately. This list also does not include any riots that were a result of winning or losing a sporting event or in the clebration of Mardi Gras. I did not count the number of ex-Confederate vs. the Northern states, you can see for yourself there is just no comparison.

I think history shows where the most hate lies.

GP


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